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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:06 pm 
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The Republican governor of Ohio said on Monday that he will expand Medicaid broadly with millions in federal money — drawing the ire of conservatives who had hoped to stop Obamacare from taking effect on the state level.

“It’s definitely going to weaken him with the conservative base,” Chris Littleton, the Ohio director for American Majority Action, told Politico of Gov. John Kasich’s decision. “It’s not a good idea to expand your No. 1 budget item in the middle of this kind of instability.

“The conservative grass roots and average voters are not going to support this in any way, shape or form,” Littleton said.


http://www.therightscoop.com/he-has-thr ... obamacare/

Quote:
On Wednesday, Gov. Rick Snyder of Michigan became the sixth GOP governor out of 30 to recommend expanding Medicaid eligibility in their state.

“This makes sense,” he said, “for the physical and fiscal health of Michigan.”


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/06/40 ... rylink=cpy


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:26 pm 
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I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Location: OH IO! Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
The Fed loves to gives states arm twisting ultimatums that make them dependent, that's their MO. It's a no win situation politically, refuse the money and be accused of depriving the poor of medical care, accept the money and be labeled a caving RINO and risk the ire of the Tea Party voters. Either way medicaid is a looming financial disaster waiting to happen. I say everyone pile on and force the disaster to happen sooner rather than later so we can get some fiscal responsibility instilled in our cutlure and government again. (one can hope)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


Quote:
Under the ACA, states that open Medicaid to everyone earning up to 133% of the federal poverty level ($14,856 in 2012 for a single person) will receive 100% federal funding for newly eligible enrollees initially, phasing down to 90% by 2020. (Most states now receive a far smaller federal match for Medicaid beneficiaries.) Kasich said it “makes great sense for the state of Ohio.”

Still, Kasich’s decision, presented as part of his latest budget that now goes before the state legislature, was surprising. He joined more than 20 other states that sued to overturn the ACA back in 2011. After the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the health care law but said the Medicaid expansion specifically should be optional for states, Kasich issued a statement saying that he was “very concerned that a sudden, dramatic increase in Medicaid spending could threaten Ohio’s ability to pursue needed reforms in other areas, such as education.”

Philip Klein, a conservative writer for the Washington Examiner, says Kasich’s Medicaid decision is “political cowardice” and “a demonstration of how difficult it is to defeat big government.” An editorial in the Wall Street Journal titled “The GOP’s ObamaCare Flippers” accused Kasich and the other GOP governors of accepting a federal “bribe” by signing up to take the generous federal matching funds for expanding Medicaid. The Ohio affiliate of the conservative group Media Trackers said Kasich’s Medicaid cave “means a total collapse in Kasich’s credibility on Washington spending.”

Some Republican governors have said they won’t expand Medicaid, while others are still undecided. On Tuesday, Pennsylvania’s Republican Gov. Tom Corbett said he opposes an expansion of Medidcaid in his state. There is no deadline to sign up for the program, but governors across the country have been under tremendous financial pressure from health care providers in their states who would benefit from enlarging Medicaid. Hospitals now provide charity care to residents who would qualify for Medicaid if it were expanded to ACA levels. Under the law, the federal reimbursements these hospitals now get for providing the free care will gradually decrease, leaving these facilities in the lurch without new Medicaid-covered patients to make up the difference.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/06/ob ... z2KEfemdFT

So, you're saying that there is no alternative-like balancing the state budget-for states where their Medicaid recipients will be kicked out of hospitals in a few years if they do not take the expanded amounts?

I guess it comes down to the walking the walk part of conservatism vs. the big talk I always remember Kasich yaking about on Hannity and elsewhere about how fiscally sound Ohio was because of what he did.

But not fiscally sound enough to not accept the propping up of the fiscally sound Ohio economy, by taxpayer monstrosity nightmare of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I guess Kasich and Snyder are John Roberts conservatives.

Think of it this way; if obamacare has been ruled Unconstitutional-which it still is as a LAW-then would Kasich still been able to run Ohio in the black.......OR NOT?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:45 pm 
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the numbers of those that are going to need their insurance paid for by the federal govt. is going to be much, much larger than what Pres. Zero lied to u with. Not 10-20 mil., but more like 50-75 million!!!! This poorly thought out socialist program is going to destroy the U.S. when coupled with the already astronomical debt service.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/06/ob ... z2KEiiyAoJ

LOVE THIS QUOTE!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:55 pm 
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armyman03 wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


Quote:
Under the ACA, states that open Medicaid to everyone earning up to 133% of the federal poverty level ($14,856 in 2012 for a single person) will receive 100% federal funding for newly eligible enrollees initially, phasing down to 90% by 2020. (Most states now receive a far smaller federal match for Medicaid beneficiaries.) Kasich said it “makes great sense for the state of Ohio.”

Still, Kasich’s decision, presented as part of his latest budget that now goes before the state legislature, was surprising. He joined more than 20 other states that sued to overturn the ACA back in 2011. After the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the health care law but said the Medicaid expansion specifically should be optional for states, Kasich issued a statement saying that he was “very concerned that a sudden, dramatic increase in Medicaid spending could threaten Ohio’s ability to pursue needed reforms in other areas, such as education.”

Philip Klein, a conservative writer for the Washington Examiner, says Kasich’s Medicaid decision is “political cowardice” and “a demonstration of how difficult it is to defeat big government.” An editorial in the Wall Street Journal titled “The GOP’s ObamaCare Flippers” accused Kasich and the other GOP governors of accepting a federal “bribe” by signing up to take the generous federal matching funds for expanding Medicaid. The Ohio affiliate of the conservative group Media Trackers said Kasich’s Medicaid cave “means a total collapse in Kasich’s credibility on Washington spending.”

Some Republican governors have said they won’t expand Medicaid, while others are still undecided. On Tuesday, Pennsylvania’s Republican Gov. Tom Corbett said he opposes an expansion of Medidcaid in his state. There is no deadline to sign up for the program, but governors across the country have been under tremendous financial pressure from health care providers in their states who would benefit from enlarging Medicaid. Hospitals now provide charity care to residents who would qualify for Medicaid if it were expanded to ACA levels. Under the law, the federal reimbursements these hospitals now get for providing the free care will gradually decrease, leaving these facilities in the lurch without new Medicaid-covered patients to make up the difference.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/06/ob ... z2KEfemdFT

So, you're saying that there is no alternative-like balancing the state budget-for states where their Medicaid recipients will be kicked out of hospitals in a few years if they do not take the expanded amounts?

I guess it comes down to the walking the walk part of conservatism vs. the big talk I always remember Kasich yaking about on Hannity and elsewhere about how fiscally sound Ohio was because of what he did.

But not fiscally sound enough to not accept the propping up of the fiscally sound Ohio economy, by taxpayer monstrosity nightmare of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I guess Kasich and Snyder are John Roberts conservatives.

Think of it this way; if obamacare has been ruled Unconstitutional-which it still is as a LAW-then would Kasich still been able to run Ohio in the black.......OR NOT?


My point was that the states were already dependent on following the Medicaid guidelines from the federal government. The state of Ohio and every other state in the union caved in to this federal control decades ago.

As Blue Rose said in his/her post, Medicaid is a looming financial disaster waiting to happen. The time to reform Medicaid and fight the federal mandates relating to it has long passed. It's a losing proposition, politically, no matter what Kasich and Snyder and any other governor does.

Mark Levin is just ranting without any real understanding of the situation. He's ranting about these governors "getting into that program." They're already in that program. Essentially, Levin is saying that these governors should be telling their constituents, in their states, that they're just going to allow their tax dollars to be confiscated by the feds to pay for Medicaid and not have any of it returned. That is not a political win/win. That's the alternative that's on the horizon. Either comply or get cut off. The time to stop relying on federal funds to support state Medicaid programs was long ago. They're stuck. They're screwed.

I don't like it, but I don't blame them. They're just trying to make the best of a bad situation that was put in place long before they were governors of their respective states.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
armyman03 wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


Quote:
Under the ACA, states that open Medicaid to everyone earning up to 133% of the federal poverty level ($14,856 in 2012 for a single person) will receive 100% federal funding for newly eligible enrollees initially, phasing down to 90% by 2020. (Most states now receive a far smaller federal match for Medicaid beneficiaries.) Kasich said it “makes great sense for the state of Ohio.”

Still, Kasich’s decision, presented as part of his latest budget that now goes before the state legislature, was surprising. He joined more than 20 other states that sued to overturn the ACA back in 2011. After the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the health care law but said the Medicaid expansion specifically should be optional for states, Kasich issued a statement saying that he was “very concerned that a sudden, dramatic increase in Medicaid spending could threaten Ohio’s ability to pursue needed reforms in other areas, such as education.”

Philip Klein, a conservative writer for the Washington Examiner, says Kasich’s Medicaid decision is “political cowardice” and “a demonstration of how difficult it is to defeat big government.” An editorial in the Wall Street Journal titled “The GOP’s ObamaCare Flippers” accused Kasich and the other GOP governors of accepting a federal “bribe” by signing up to take the generous federal matching funds for expanding Medicaid. The Ohio affiliate of the conservative group Media Trackers said Kasich’s Medicaid cave “means a total collapse in Kasich’s credibility on Washington spending.”

Some Republican governors have said they won’t expand Medicaid, while others are still undecided. On Tuesday, Pennsylvania’s Republican Gov. Tom Corbett said he opposes an expansion of Medidcaid in his state. There is no deadline to sign up for the program, but governors across the country have been under tremendous financial pressure from health care providers in their states who would benefit from enlarging Medicaid. Hospitals now provide charity care to residents who would qualify for Medicaid if it were expanded to ACA levels. Under the law, the federal reimbursements these hospitals now get for providing the free care will gradually decrease, leaving these facilities in the lurch without new Medicaid-covered patients to make up the difference.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/06/ob ... z2KEfemdFT

So, you're saying that there is no alternative-like balancing the state budget-for states where their Medicaid recipients will be kicked out of hospitals in a few years if they do not take the expanded amounts?

I guess it comes down to the walking the walk part of conservatism vs. the big talk I always remember Kasich yaking about on Hannity and elsewhere about how fiscally sound Ohio was because of what he did.

But not fiscally sound enough to not accept the propping up of the fiscally sound Ohio economy, by taxpayer monstrosity nightmare of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I guess Kasich and Snyder are John Roberts conservatives.

Think of it this way; if obamacare has been ruled Unconstitutional-which it still is as a LAW-then would Kasich still been able to run Ohio in the black.......OR NOT?


My point was that the states were already dependent on following the Medicaid guidelines from the federal government. The state of Ohio and every other state in the union caved in to this federal control decades ago.

As Blue Rose said in his/her post, Medicaid is a looming financial disaster waiting to happen. The time to reform Medicaid and fight the federal mandates relating to it has long passed. It's a losing proposition, politically, no matter what Kasich and Snyder and any other governor does.

Mark Levin is just ranting without any real understanding of the situation. He's ranting about these governors "getting into that program." They're already in that program. Essentially, Levin is saying that these governors should be telling their constituents, in their states, that they're just going to allow their tax dollars to be confiscated by the feds to pay for Medicaid and not have any of it returned. That is not a political win/win. That's the alternative that's on the horizon. Either comply or get cut off. The time to stop relying on federal funds to support state Medicaid programs was long ago. They're stuck. They're screwed.

I don't like it, but I don't blame them. They're just trying to make the best of a bad situation that was put in place long before they were governors of their respective states.


THE TIME IS NOW, EITHER WE'RE FOR THE CONSTITUTION OR WE'RE AGAINST IT; FIGHT FOR IT, OR FIGHT AGAINST IT.

The fight is now, the line is drawn.

27 states are fighting it, 33 have been subdued....the retaking/restoring of America begins...or ends here.

At least the peaceful retaking.

Kasich and Snyder have chosen their side.

What will we choose?!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:22 pm 
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armyman03 wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
armyman03 wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


Quote:
Under the ACA, states that open Medicaid to everyone earning up to 133% of the federal poverty level ($14,856 in 2012 for a single person) will receive 100% federal funding for newly eligible enrollees initially, phasing down to 90% by 2020. (Most states now receive a far smaller federal match for Medicaid beneficiaries.) Kasich said it “makes great sense for the state of Ohio.”

Still, Kasich’s decision, presented as part of his latest budget that now goes before the state legislature, was surprising. He joined more than 20 other states that sued to overturn the ACA back in 2011. After the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the health care law but said the Medicaid expansion specifically should be optional for states, Kasich issued a statement saying that he was “very concerned that a sudden, dramatic increase in Medicaid spending could threaten Ohio’s ability to pursue needed reforms in other areas, such as education.”

Philip Klein, a conservative writer for the Washington Examiner, says Kasich’s Medicaid decision is “political cowardice” and “a demonstration of how difficult it is to defeat big government.” An editorial in the Wall Street Journal titled “The GOP’s ObamaCare Flippers” accused Kasich and the other GOP governors of accepting a federal “bribe” by signing up to take the generous federal matching funds for expanding Medicaid. The Ohio affiliate of the conservative group Media Trackers said Kasich’s Medicaid cave “means a total collapse in Kasich’s credibility on Washington spending.”

Some Republican governors have said they won’t expand Medicaid, while others are still undecided. On Tuesday, Pennsylvania’s Republican Gov. Tom Corbett said he opposes an expansion of Medidcaid in his state. There is no deadline to sign up for the program, but governors across the country have been under tremendous financial pressure from health care providers in their states who would benefit from enlarging Medicaid. Hospitals now provide charity care to residents who would qualify for Medicaid if it were expanded to ACA levels. Under the law, the federal reimbursements these hospitals now get for providing the free care will gradually decrease, leaving these facilities in the lurch without new Medicaid-covered patients to make up the difference.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/06/ob ... z2KEfemdFT

So, you're saying that there is no alternative-like balancing the state budget-for states where their Medicaid recipients will be kicked out of hospitals in a few years if they do not take the expanded amounts?

I guess it comes down to the walking the walk part of conservatism vs. the big talk I always remember Kasich yaking about on Hannity and elsewhere about how fiscally sound Ohio was because of what he did.

But not fiscally sound enough to not accept the propping up of the fiscally sound Ohio economy, by taxpayer monstrosity nightmare of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I guess Kasich and Snyder are John Roberts conservatives.

Think of it this way; if obamacare has been ruled Unconstitutional-which it still is as a LAW-then would Kasich still been able to run Ohio in the black.......OR NOT?


My point was that the states were already dependent on following the Medicaid guidelines from the federal government. The state of Ohio and every other state in the union caved in to this federal control decades ago.

As Blue Rose said in his/her post, Medicaid is a looming financial disaster waiting to happen. The time to reform Medicaid and fight the federal mandates relating to it has long passed. It's a losing proposition, politically, no matter what Kasich and Snyder and any other governor does.

Mark Levin is just ranting without any real understanding of the situation. He's ranting about these governors "getting into that program." They're already in that program. Essentially, Levin is saying that these governors should be telling their constituents, in their states, that they're just going to allow their tax dollars to be confiscated by the feds to pay for Medicaid and not have any of it returned. That is not a political win/win. That's the alternative that's on the horizon. Either comply or get cut off. The time to stop relying on federal funds to support state Medicaid programs was long ago. They're stuck. They're screwed.

I don't like it, but I don't blame them. They're just trying to make the best of a bad situation that was put in place long before they were governors of their respective states.


THE TIME IS NOW, EITHER WE'RE FOR THE CONSTITUTION OR WE'RE AGAINST IT; FIGHT FOR IT, OR FIGHT AGAINST IT.

The fight is now, the line is drawn.

27 states are fighting it, 33 have been subdued....the retaking/restoring of America begins...or ends here.

At least the peaceful retaking.

Kasich and Snyder have chosen their side.

What will we choose?!



I understand your passion, because I am against Obamacare as much as anybody, but among those 27 states that are rejecting Obamacare are Michigan, Ohio and Arizona.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/01/17/lis ... obamacare/

Ohio, Michigan and Arizona have all refused to set up the mandatory health care exchanges. They are still fighting the implementation of Obamacare. This is only small part of Obamacare we are talking about, that they have "caved on."

You need to get a grip.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:38 pm 
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What a crock of shit! This isn't a cave! :sheesh: Kasich, Snyder, and every other red state governor in the union. Tell me who's not going to "cave." :sheesh:


And look.... *American Majority* Well I'll be damned if this organization hasn't been tearing down conservatives all year long! Seriously! Keep your eye on American Majority. They seem to shoot from the hip and are ALWAYS aiming at conservatives. :hm2:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
Mark Levin is just ranting without any real understanding of the situation. He's ranting about these governors "getting into that program." They're already in that program. Essentially, Levin is saying that these governors should be telling their constituents, in their states, that they're just going to allow their tax dollars to be confiscated by the feds to pay for Medicaid and not have any of it returned. That is not a political win/win. That's the alternative that's on the horizon. Either comply or get cut off. The time to stop relying on federal funds to support state Medicaid programs was long ago. They're stuck. They're screwed.


^THIS!^

I don't see what's so hard to understand about it. You're not going to take medicare withholdings out of my check TO PAY FOR MADICARE IN MY STATE, and then tax or fee me somewhere else on a state level because the governor won't accept my money from the fed! :doh: Holy shit, people! :loopy:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:48 pm 
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anbell wrote:
What a crock of shit! This isn't a cave! :sheesh: Kasich, Snyder, and every other red state governor in the union. Tell me who's not going to "cave." :sheesh:


And look.... *American Majority* Well I'll be damned if this organization hasn't been tearing down conservatives all year long! Seriously! Keep your eye on American Majority. They seem to shoot from the hip and are ALWAYS aiming at conservatives. :hm2:

'All year long?' Try 'since Reagan'.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:54 pm 
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anbell wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
Mark Levin is just ranting without any real understanding of the situation. He's ranting about these governors "getting into that program." They're already in that program. Essentially, Levin is saying that these governors should be telling their constituents, in their states, that they're just going to allow their tax dollars to be confiscated by the feds to pay for Medicaid and not have any of it returned. That is not a political win/win. That's the alternative that's on the horizon. Either comply or get cut off. The time to stop relying on federal funds to support state Medicaid programs was long ago. They're stuck. They're screwed.


^THIS!^

I don't see what's so hard to understand about it. You're not going to take medicare withholdings out of my check TO PAY FOR MADICARE IN MY STATE, and then tax or fee me somewhere else on a state level because the governor won't accept my money from the fed! :doh: Holy shit, people! :loopy:



These Republican governors are doing all they can to fight the implementation of the UNaffordable care act, but this is supposedly them compromising all their conservative principles?

:sheesh:

It's mind-boggling, isn't it? Sometimes the knee-jerk reactions of people on the right are downright embarrassing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Kasich and four GOP governors embrace Obama`s suicidal Medicaid expansion.

SEE:Poison pill? GOP governors divided over whether to accept ObamaCare Medicaid expansion


By Lee Ross
Published February 06, 2013
FoxNews.com



"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined. So far, five other Republican-led states -- Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Michigan and Ohio -- have announced support for the expanded program“.



These five GOP governors are now complicit in the Obama Administration’s policies which will borrow this Medicaid expansion money from China, drastically increasing our national debt, and result in our nation’s younger generation being born into a situation of unprecedented indentured servitude under which their earned wages will be taxed away to pay interest and principal to China.


In my eyes these governors are willing accomplices giving aid an comfort to domestic enemies who are destroying our nation from within.


Last edited by johnwk on Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


You don’t freaken get it. This is an expansion of Medicaid [free stuff] which will be funded by borrowing more money from China.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


Brewer is right.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:28 pm 
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johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
I think the assertion that they are "caving" is a bit overwrought. People don't seem to understand how this all works. They are obligated to administer Medicaid through their state coffers. They would have to do this regardless of Obamacare. The only way they could get away with refusing is to refuse all federal dollars coming into their state Medicaid program. That would be a fiscal disaster for any state who tried to do that.


You don’t freaken get it. This is an expansion of Medicaid [free stuff] which will be funded by borrowing more money from China.


No. You don't get it, and your link above is broken.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:

These Republican governors are doing all they can to fight the implementation of the UNaffordable care act, but this is supposedly them compromising all their conservative principles?

:sheesh:

It's mind-boggling, isn't it? Sometimes the knee-jerk reactions of people on the right are downright embarrassing.


People on the right? Are you talking about those of us who support and defend our written constitution and the documented intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted?

When you find that provision in the Constitution under which the people have delegated a power to Congress to enter their states and meddle in their medical and health care decisions feel free to post that wording.

Aside from that, the following summarizes the situation in crystal clear language:


When a free people submit to oppressive acts, passed in violation of their constitution, for a single day, they have thrown down the palladium of their liberty. Submit to despotism for an hour and you concede the principle. John Adams said, in 1775, Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud. It is the only thing a people determined to be free can do. Republics have often failed, and have been succeeded by the most revolting despotisms; and always it was the voice of timidity, cowardice, or false leaders counseling submission, that led to the final downfall of freedom. It was the cowardice and treachery of the Senate of Rome that allowed the usurper to gain power, inch by inch, to overthrow the Republic. The history of the downfall of Republics is the same in all ages. The first inch that is yielded to despotism __ the first blow, dealt at the Constitution, that is not resisted is the beginning of the end of the nations ruin. ___ SEE:HOW TO TREAT UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTS OF CONGRESS


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


Brewer is right.


These dollars? Is Gov. Brewer talking about dollars which will be borrowed from China to give to her State? Why would America have to borrow these dollars if she decided to not ask for this money like other thinking governors are doing? Eh?


JWK


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:03 pm 
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I still cannot make any sense of what Governor Kasich said regarding the $13 billion which he asserts will come out of his State and be given to other states when Obama will be borrowing the $13 billion from China and our nation‘s children and grandchildren, across the united States, will be stuck with the tab.

Seems to me Kasich, along with these other governors, are ok with helping Obama expand Medicaid and making more voters dependent upon our federal government.

Why is Kasich and these other governors so eager to participate in the expansion of the welfare state and make millions more dependent upon our federal government for their subsistence who will then prostitute their vote for those in government who dole out free stuff which Medicaid is?

Were we not warned against this danger by our founding fathers?

A POWER OVER A MAN's SUBSISTENCE AMOUNTS TO A POWER OVER HIS WILL ____ Hamilton, No. 79 Federalist Papers

I just can’t figure out why these GOP governors are assisting Obama in his ultimate goal which is to make the vast majority of American voters dependent upon the federal government for their very existence.



JWK


If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon an Obama, welfare, food stamp, section 8 housing, college loan check, and now free Obamacare along with FREE BACON, we can blackmail them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ____ Obama’s Marxist Free Stuff Party, which is designed to establish a federal dictatorship and redistribute the wealth which wage earners, business and investors have worked to create.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Republicans caving into o'boy is not news. That seems to be the only strategy that they have - like the French. :outrage:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:32 pm 
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dodger wrote:
Republicans caving into o'boy is not news. That seems to be the only strategy that they have - like the French. :outrage:



I believe most Tea Party Activists know in their heart that Obamacare, if allowed to be fully implemented, will be the downfall of the constitutionally limited system of government which our founding fathers put their lives on the line to secure and pass down to future generations.


The question is, where are the ongoing patriotic demonstrations and rallies in front of the White House, the House of Representatives and our Supreme Court where this legislative and judicial tyranny has been born? Why are the America People allowing their country to be taken over by tyrants and despots without the appropriate resistance?


When a free people submit to oppressive acts, passed in violation of their constitution, for a single day, they have thrown down the palladium of their liberty. Submit to despotism for an hour and you concede the principle. John Adams said, in 1775, Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud. It is the only thing a people determined to be free can do. Republics have often failed, and have been succeeded by the most revolting despotisms; and always it was the voice of timidity, cowardice, or false leaders counseling submission, that led to the final downfall of freedom. It was the cowardice and treachery of the Senate of Rome that allowed the usurper to gain power, inch by inch, to overthrow the Republic. The history of the downfall of Republics is the same in all ages. The first inch that is yielded to despotism __ the first blow, dealt at the Constitution, that is not resisted is the beginning of the end of the nations ruin. ___ SEE: HOW TO TREAT UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTS OF CONGRESS


Tea Party leaders need to immediately organize a massive demonstration in Washington that will not only tie up every road and bridge in our nation`s Capitol, but will put these Obamacare tyrants on notice that their time is running out to reverse the evil they are visiting upon America.


FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!


JWK



We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between, and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:38 pm 
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I wonder how many others were stunned at Governor Kasich accepting federal cheese in return for expanding a welfare program. The more I study his comment, I am led to believe he has given us a clue into the real Governor Kasich … a typical politician who is willing to discard principal when times get tough.

Kasich said that Obamacare “… takes $13 billion of Ohioans’ federal tax dollars out of our state and gives it to other states—where it will go to work helping to rev up some other state’s economy instead of Ohio’s.” This statement is flat wrong and is a misrepresentation of where the $13 billion will really come from which is money borrowed from China. Not from federal tax dollars taken out of his state which he asserts will then be given to some other State to “rev up“ their economy.

Why is he so willing to expand a federal welfare program, which Medicaid is, and pass the tab to our nation’s children and grandchildren?

Kasich’s above comment is based upon classic progressive class warfare rhetoric. In this case his comment is designed to generate economic warfare between states in order to justify getting his State's piece of federal cheese from Obama.


JWK




They are not “liberals”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use the cloak of government force to steal the wealth which wage earners, business and investors have worked to create


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:23 pm 
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johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


Brewer is right.


These dollars? Is Gov. Brewer talking about dollars which will be borrowed from China to give to her State? Why would America have to borrow these dollars if she decided to not ask for this money like other thinking governors are doing? Eh?


JWK


Nope. There is a little thing called a federal income tax, which is taken out of everyone's paycheck. All that money goes to Washington, and then it gets redistributed to the states in the form of, among other things, Medicaid funds. The states already provide money to cover Medicaid. The federal government subsidizes it with money that citizens pay in form of their tax dollars.

Why don't you understand that it's OUR money?

Eh?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:27 am 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:
johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


Brewer is right.


These dollars? Is Gov. Brewer talking about dollars which will be borrowed from China to give to her State? Why would America have to borrow these dollars if she decided to not ask for this money like other thinking governors are doing? Eh?


JWK


Nope. There is a little thing called a federal income tax, which is taken out of everyone's paycheck.


We are not talking about income tax money. We are talking about money that Obama will borrow from China.

The truth is Kasich lied when he said that Obamacare “… takes $13 billion of Ohioans’ federal tax dollars out of our state and gives it to other states—where it will go to work helping to rev up some other state’s economy instead of Ohio’s.” This statement is flat wrong and is a misrepresentation of where the $13 billion will really come from which is money borrowed from China. Not from federal tax dollars taken out of his state which he asserts will then be given to some other State to “rev up“ their economy.

Why is he so willing to expand a federal welfare program, which Medicaid is, and pass the tab to our nation’s children and grandchildren?

Kasich’s above comment is based upon classic progressive class warfare rhetoric. In this case his comment is designed to generate economic warfare between states in order to justify getting his State's piece of federal cheese from Obama.

Why do you go along with expanding the welfare state and passing the tab to our nation's younger generation? Eh?

JWK

The liberty to fail or succeed at one’s own hand is a PROGRESSIVE‘S nightmare and not the American Dream


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:33 am 
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johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:

Nope. There is a little thing called a federal income tax, which is taken out of everyone's paycheck.


We are not talking about income tax money. We are talking about money that Obama will borrow from China.

The truth is Kasich lied when he said that Obamacare “… takes $13 billion of Ohioans’ federal tax dollars out of our state and gives it to other states—where it will go to work helping to rev up some other state’s economy instead of Ohio’s.” This statement is flat wrong and is a misrepresentation of where the $13 billion will really come from which is money borrowed from China. Not from federal tax dollars taken out of his state which he asserts will then be given to some other State to “rev up“ their economy.

Why is he so willing to expand a federal welfare program, which Medicaid is, and pass the tab to our nation’s children and grandchildren?



JWK

Dude, it doesn't matter if it's money taken from our pay or a loan taken out on our behalf, we the people will pay for it either way.

There's no viable plan to fix any of this mess, and the most direct route to getting out from under it is to force it to go bankrupt. Kasich had to choose between two very bad options, hopefully this option will hasten the demise of federal welfare programs.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:15 pm 
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johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
johnwk wrote:
Bigfoot56 wrote:
Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


Brewer is right.


These dollars? Is Gov. Brewer talking about dollars which will be borrowed from China to give to her State? Why would America have to borrow these dollars if she decided to not ask for this money like other thinking governors are doing? Eh?


JWK


Nope. There is a little thing called a federal income tax, which is taken out of everyone's paycheck.


We are not talking about income tax money. We are talking about money that Obama will borrow from China.

The truth is Kasich lied when he said that Obamacare “… takes $13 billion of Ohioans’ federal tax dollars out of our state and gives it to other states—where it will go to work helping to rev up some other state’s economy instead of Ohio’s.” This statement is flat wrong and is a misrepresentation of where the $13 billion will really come from which is money borrowed from China. Not from federal tax dollars taken out of his state which he asserts will then be given to some other State to “rev up“ their economy.

Why is he so willing to expand a federal welfare program, which Medicaid is, and pass the tab to our nation’s children and grandchildren?

Kasich’s above comment is based upon classic progressive class warfare rhetoric. In this case his comment is designed to generate economic warfare between states in order to justify getting his State's piece of federal cheese from Obama.

Why do you go along with expanding the welfare state and passing the tab to our nation's younger generation? Eh?

JWK

The liberty to fail or succeed at one’s own hand is a PROGRESSIVE‘S nightmare and not the American Dream


No. We are talking about income tax money. That's where you have it wrong.

These governors are FORCED to implement Medicaid coverage as mandated by the federal government. What do you not understand about that?

Let's go back to what Jan Brewer said:

Quote:
"Saying 'no' to this plan would not save these federal dollars from being spent or direct them to deficit reduction," Brewer determined.


jwk wrote:
These dollars? Is Gov. Brewer talking about dollars which will be borrowed from China to give to her State? Why would America have to borrow these dollars if she decided to not ask for this money like other thinking governors are doing? Eh?


You seem to think that the solution to the federal government (over) spending is for states to allow the federal government to take their tax dollars and just keep them and not redistribute those dollars to the states that they were taken from.

Brewer and Kasich have it right. This money is going to be spent whether they agree to this plan or not, and if they refuse it, it is not going to go to pay down the debt...nor will it stop the U.S. from borrowing more money from China.

Blue Rose said it well. They have to make the choice between two bad options.

They didn't "cave." They chose what they thought was the least objectionable option for their states, and THEY ARE STILL FIGHTING AGAINST OBAMACARE.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Bigfoot56 wrote:

You seem to think that the solution to the federal government (over) spending is for states to allow the federal government to take their tax dollars and just keep them and not redistribute those dollars to the states that they were taken from.

Brewer and Kasich have it right. This money is going to be spent whether they agree to this plan or not, and if they refuse it, it is not going to go to pay down the debt...nor will it stop the U.S. from borrowing more money from China.

Blue Rose said it well. They have to make the choice between two bad options.

They didn't "cave." They chose what they thought was the least objectionable option for their states, and THEY ARE STILL FIGHTING AGAINST OBAMACARE.



You haven’t been paying attention my friend. Contrary to your assertion at the top of your post about “tax dollars“, the $ 13 billion Kasich is talking about are not tax dollars but will be money borrowed from China and which Obama is using to create warfare between the Governors of Republican controlled States. The $13 billion Kasich is talking about is Obama cheese to expand the number of Medicaid receipiants in the state, and he and the other four Governors are biting. What a bunch of turncoat rats!

The truth is, Kasich does not have it "right" as you allege. He lied when he wrote: Obamacare “… takes $13 billion of Ohioans’ federal tax dollars out of our state and gives it to other states—where it will go to work helping to rev up some other state’s economy instead of Ohio’s.” This statement is erroneous and a misrepresentation of where the $13 billion will come from and will come from money borrowed from China. Not from federal tax dollars taken out of his state which he asserts will then be given to some other State to “rev up“ their economy.

Kasich’s above comment is based upon classic progressive class warfare rhetoric. In this case his comment is designed to generate economic warfare between Republican Governors in order to justify getting some federal cheese from Obama.

Why is he so willing to generate warfare between Republican Governors and work to expand a federal welfare program, which Medicaid is, and pass the tab to our nation’s children and grandchildren and deprive them of their economic liberty?

I appreciate your interpretations of what is in the mind of Kasich, but unlike you, I will judge him on what he wrote.


JWK




They are not “liberals”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use the cloak of government force to steal the wealth which wage earners, business and investors have worked to create


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:01 am 
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I wonder how much the national debt will be increased by this Medicaid expansion which these five governors are supporting.

I also wonder why these GOP Governors are now in bed with Obama on Obamacare when Obamacare is designed to have folks in government dictate every choice and decision regarding a persons medical and health care needs even though making such choices and decisions is an inalienable right of mankind. And to interfere with this inalienable right is presumptively unconstitutional!


JWK

“It is of course true that a law that impinges upon a fundamental right explicitly or implicitly secured by the Constitution is presumptively unconstitutional.” City of Mobile v. Bolden, 466 U.S. 55, 76, 100 S.Ct. 1490, 64 L.Ed.2d 47 (1980)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:37 am 
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armyman03 wrote:


Kasich and Snyder have chosen their side.

What will we choose?!


I'm going out on a limb here:

I predict you'll choose the republican side. :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:06 am 
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doc trock wrote:
armyman03 wrote:


Kasich and Snyder have chosen their side.

What will we choose?!


I'm going out on a limb here:

I predict you'll choose the republican side. :nod:




I kind of think what will be chosen is the Washington Establishment side which continues to tighten the noose around the necks of America’s labor, businesses and investors.


JWK

It’s not PORK. It’s a money laundering operations used to plunder our national treasury and fatten the fortunes of the well connected in Washington.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Seems to me the only lawful way to grant new powers to Congress is by Article V of our Constitution and requires consent of the people via an approval of …the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof. Does Obamacare have Congress and the Obama Administration exercising new powers?

Also note it is settled law that government acts which impinge upon fundamental rights are “presumptively unconstitutional“.

Surely Obamacare which has our public servants in Washington dictating a person’s medical and health care needs and decisions impinges upon a fundamental right. Are we not all in agreement on this?

Additionally, and to the best of my knowledge, the 26 State Attorney Generals arguing against Obamacare, including Pat Bondi, quite suspiciously never once raised this primary issue in their brief [government acts which impinge upon fundamental rights are “presumptively unconstitutional“], just like they haven’t returned to Court to have Justice Roberts identify the specific taxing power [imposts, duties, excises, a direct tax, or a tax upon incomes without being apportioned] was intended to allow Congress or the president's administration to enter the various united states and dictate an inner city person’s medical needs and choices.

Does Obama and these five Governors really believe that people living in our nation's inner cities and other American Citizens are too stupid to make their own medical and health care choices?


JWK

“It is of course true that a law that impinges upon a fundamental right explicitly or implicitly secured by the Constitution is presumptively unconstitutional.” City of Mobile v. Bolden, 466 U.S. 55, 76, 100 S.Ct. 1490, 64 L.Ed.2d 47 (1980)


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